Posts Tagged ‘God’

A lively debate is unfolding as members of our Underground Knowledge global discussion group on Goodreads postulate on the identity of Yahweh, the god of the Israelites, whose name was revealed to Moses as “YHWH” in the Hebrew language.

 

Yahweh

 

Undergrounders are divided in who exactly Yahweh is. Some suggest he, she or it is Aten, the disk of the sun in ancient Egyptian mythology; some insist it’s Satan, the Angel of Death himself; others say he’s the Christian God.

A sample of some of the more interesting comments follows:

-Yahweh is not the Christian god, and I propose to prove this. Here we go…

-My view is that Yahweh is the Aten, the very first example that I know of of monotheism, and when the Jews left Israel with the return of Amun and the other Gods of Egypt, they took the Aten with them and changed its name.

-A fictitious character. Prove me wrong.

-As for the father of Jesus, I can’t help but point the finger at Joseph.

-I agree that Yahweh is not the God of Christianity as it has been posited by many Christina theologians and priests.

-I also find it curious that within a supposed universe of there supposedly being only one God, it references in the very first book (Genesis) “older Gods”.

-Why does God speak of himself as “we”? Is he the Elohim or the one true God?

-Yahweh has been taken on or co-opted by Christianity as Jesus Heavenly Father and from my study of Gnosticism and proto-Christianity, this couldn’t be further from the truth. Jehova was also seen as a warlike God who also has co-opted other religious figures into his mythology like El, Ishtar, Baal, etc.

-Through my research, I found that Yahweh is not Jehova.

-Yahweh is the fallen angel, HE IS SATAN… who was expelled from heaven.

– The Hebrew perspective is that YHWH or Tetragrammaton was the name given to Ain Sof (the Infinite being/intelligence). The concept goes back at least to Akkadia/Sumeria/Babylon in the form of the titles “EL” (meaning God). Hebrew names for G-d like Elohim (God of many/Lord of Hosts), or ElShaddai (Almighty God) lend credence to this.

-The being called YHWH is not Jesus and is not related to Jesus directly in the Hebrew. The proper name given in Torah is Adonai (Lord). The Jewish encyclopedia has a lot of information on this subject. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/art

 

To view all comments in this discussion thread, or better still to have YOUR say, go to: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/18618830-who-really-is-yahweh-the-god-from-the-old-testament?comment=191627554#comment_191627554

 

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Our latest ‘Underground Knowledge’ discussion group poll on the popular literary site Goodreads.com  asks: Do you believe Jesus Christ was a real historical person? Interim results show that 60% of poll respondents say Yes; 23% say No; and 17% are Unsure.

 Christ, by Heinrich Hofmann.jpg

Christ as depicted by artist Heinrich Hofmann.

The poll was inspired by a lively new discussion thread titled Forbidden history of the Bible in our group.

That thread in turn has spawned the following debates:

Earlier historical versions of Jesus Christ?

Extensive biblical revisions made by the Romans

Biblical conspiracy theory re Adam & Eve

Book of Genesis – not an original document?

and last but not least…

Banned books of the Bible

 

Before voting in the poll, members were advised, “For anyone wanting to read more on this subject before voting, here’s a discussion thread in the group on “Earlier historical versions of Jesus Christ”: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/…

 

A selection of poll respondents’ comments follow (names withheld):

No offense but the question to me is nonsensical, so I didn’t weigh in. No genuine scholar denies that Jesus existed. That leaves pretty much only propagandists and pseudo-scholars, who know nothing about history, that deny that He did. There is way more proof for His existence than there is for many other people that we accept as historical. People can argue about what His significance is, but that He was a historical figure is unquestionably so.

 

I am obligated to be honest with respect to my Christian brethren and friends here. My “YES” Jesus existed is qualified by the separation of what is ascribed to him in the Gospel. It is problematic to align with Paul’s advocating that a Jew of the first century would claim divinity when the Jews challenged Rome over the same issue to the very end of a disastrous conclusion, and without surrendering their belief: they rather faced a holocaust than surrender their belief before Rome. The followers of Jesus rejected Paul, not Jesus.

 

I don’t ALTOGETHER believe Jesus Christ existed as such, but the question, with only Yes, No and Unsure options, imposes limitations on the answer. By that I mean that it’s perfectly plausible that a man, or many men existed at that time called Jesus of Nazareth, and it’s wholly plausible that one or more might have been regarded as Jesus Christ. What I don’t believe is that a ‘Jesus Christ son of God’ existed, any more than I believe God himself existed. I hope I’ve explained that clearly. (Gulps)

 

I believe there is a true person behind the legends and stories. Just not that every action, event, or saying ascribed to him in the canonical or other writings is 100% accurate.

 

Way too much historical evidence for him. See Josephus.

 

It’s my understanding that many (or most?) historians now believe Josephus’ documents that name Jesus are forgeries: http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

 

It is very possible the Church threw in the forgery. I don’t disagree with that. I do disagree that Jesus is a figment of some one’s story telling ability.

 

Are you aware of all the Pagan Gods who came before Christ – like Mithra, Horus and Osiris – whose lives are remarkably similar to the story of Jesus? I find the history (or lack of, depending on your take) surrounding Jesus gets really convoluted the deeper you research.

 

Agreed. Lot’s of stuff borrowed. There was even a second messiah around 100 AD.

 

To see all the comments, or better still to have YOUR say, go to: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group?type=group

 

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Yet another interesting confab is unfolding in our ‘Underground Knowledge’ discussion group on Goodreads.com – this one relating to the authenticity of the Bible and the accuracy of the information contained within its hallowed pages.

1611 King James Bible Book

The discussion was sparked by one of the group’s moderators who claims it is historically proven many or all of the books in the Bible were edited (revised, rewritten, added to and subtracted from) at later dates. He refers to “the extensive Council of Nicea biblical edits in the 4th Century AD conducted by the Romans under Emperor Constantine.”

His post continues:

So to believe the Bible as we now know it is the pure “word of God” means one must also believe that the political and militant Romans who revised the Bible had no other agendas when they decided on what to include in the finalized Bible and what to remove from its content…

That belief would be a very big call when you think about it as it requires a faith in some very corrupt and militant Roman rulers…Today’s equivalent would be believing a spiritual text edited/revised by say George W. Bush, Oliver North, Henry Kissinger and Tony Blair retained the original word of God…

…The oldest bible ever found is the Sinai Bible which from memory was written on donkey skins in the 3RD Century AD. It differs radically from the modern (edited) Bible, which is further testimony to the changes Man has made to the “word of God” over the centuries. Apparently the Sinai Bible does not contain any mention of the Resurrection of Christ, which may indicate that was added later (probably in the Council of Nicea).

Here’s an article from VatiLeaks (January 02, 2013) about the Sinai Bible (headed) ‘A glaring omission in World’s oldest Bible’:

“It is a fact of Christian history that the earliest Gospels did not record a resurrection of Jesus Christ, and that claim is supported in the oldest known complete Bible available to mankind today. Called the Codex Sinaiticus, or Sinai Bible, it was named after Mt. Sinai, the location of St. Catherine’s Monastery where it was discovered in 1859 by Dr. Constantine Von Tischendorf (1815-1874). The discovery of the Sinai Bible provided biblical scholars with irrefutable evidence of wilful falsifications in all modern-day Gospels, and a comparison identified a staggering 14,800 later editorial alterations in modern Bibles…

“…With the Sinai Bible, Christian history is traced back as far as it can conceivably go, but it was still written, at best, more than 350 years after the time the Vatican says Jesus Christ walked the sands of Palestine.

“The ‘Catholic Encyclopedia’ agrees to this extraordinary late composition of the world’s oldest Bible: ’The earliest of the extant manuscripts [relating to Christianity], it is true, do not date back beyond the middle of the fourth century AD’.”

 

The group moderator concludes by saying, “For anyone who believes the modern version of the Bible is the irrefutable and pure word of God, I would simply ask them then what were the older Bibles? Surely the Bibles written closer to the time of Christ should be more precise?”

 

The above discussion thread runs under the heading Extensive biblical revisions made by the Romans

Under the umbrella heading of “Forbidden history of the Bible,” other discussion threads have been established including Banned books of the Bible / Earlier historical versions of Jesus Christ? / Book of Genesis – not an original document? / Biblical conspiracy theory re Adam & Eve

 

To view the discussions, or better still to have YOUR say, go to: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group_folder/266160

 

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Membership of our rapidly growing ‘Underground Knowledge’ group has now topped 650. Do visit the group at: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group

 

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It appears the universe may not have started with a BANG! That is if the latest science challenging the notion of the Big Bang Theory is correct.

This revelation has gotten members of our ‘Underground Knowledge’ discussion group on Goodreads.com fairly worked up, with those of an atheistic or scientific bent butting heads with those of a religious persuasion as members debate the role of God in the creation of the universe.

It (the discussion that is) all began with a comment by a group moderator. He drew attention to a news item that quotes a theoretical physicist as declaring new research suggests the age of the universe could be infinite. That same article quotes another scientist as declaring “We (scientists) really have no right to say that the universe begins with a big bang.”

The news item referred to is at: https://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/…

The research referred to, incidentally, pertains to a paper published Feb. 4 in the journal Physical Letters B, and another paper that is currently under peer review, which was published in the preprint journal arXiv.

One of our members responded by quoting Genesis 1:1 – In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. She adds, “It’s the simple truth that I believe in.”

Another member countered by saying, “Unfortunately it’s not a simple truth: it is not simple and may not be the truth. E.g. who or what created god? According to Genesis, the universe was created about 6500 BC or something, whereas we know the Universe to be 13.8 billion years old. So Genesis is wrong anyway. “Who or what is god” is equivalent to the question to which Physics is seeking an answer. The big bang hypothesis assumes quantum mechanics is equivalent to god… With the big bang, there is a better explanation for reality and god isn’t needed. By the Occam’s razor principle we can therefore do without him.

To which the first member answered, “To answer the question, “who or what created god?” Nothing and no one created God. God has simply always existed. He was. He is. And He will be.”

 

Members’ (further) comments follow. (Names withheld):

At the risk of again being laughed at; the paths to god encompass the pre-destined pursuits of failing “knowledge” and the beauty of faith.

 

Other hypotheses such as a recycling universe, which is certainly not a new idea, may have a different role for quantum mechanics. Something that goes on forever (a recycling universe) is unsatisfactory as it doesn’t explain how it got there in the first place. Why is there something rather than nothing?

 

How does the new proposal handle the background radiation issue? Some sites worth reading: http://www.big-bang-theory.com/http://news.nationalgeographic.com/ne…

 

I believe the Big Bang Theory is very ridiculous and requires EVEN MORE FAITH than believing that a loving God created the universe in six days (which is totally the truth, and very simple to accept.)

 

Keep in mind most modern Christians do not state the world is 4-6,000 years old anymore. Most accept that the Earth is billions of years old as per science’s findings. The belief that it’s only a few thousand years old is now about as popular a Christian belief as the old Biblical viewpoint that the Earth is the center of the Universe. Certainly some Christian sects and other minority offshoots (e.g. Seventh Day Adventists) push the old 4,000 year old Biblical belief, but not mainstream Christianity as a whole…FYI, the Aboriginal (native) people in Australia are estimated to go back to around 50,000 years.

 

The bottom line is the Bible was written by men (not any supernatural entity) and written in a time when people had little scientific understanding…

 

The Bible was Not written by men. It was spoken through men but God-breathed (God spoke it it to them or supernaturally showed them what to write).

 

Any Christian scholar will inform you the Bible was most certainly written by men. Afterall, nobody is saying the books that formed the Bible fell out of the sky already written. Each book in the Bible had authors – hence the Book of Job, the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of Matthew etc. Furthermore, it’s historically proven many or all of these books were edited at later dates (e.g. the Council of Nicea biblical edits in 353AD conducted by the Romans).

 

There are actually various other scientific theories that have been proposed regarding the background radiation. For example, Japanese scientist and member of this group Takaaki Musha has proposed that the cosmic background radiation is not due to the after-glow of a Big Bang, but rather it’s due to the Cherenkov radiation from tachyon pairs created from a ZPF vacuum.

 

Back to the point about the universe possibly recycling. Didn’t Hubble himself have that idea? Wasn’t he the one who thought up the phrase “big bang” as a frustrated way of saying how silly the whole idea was? Of course science is full of silly ideas that ultimately survive the full test of scientific enquiry, such as evolution itself. It will probably take a long time to dismiss the “big bang” theory [no pun intended!]. We can get very close to the point when the current universe began — a tiny fraction of a second. After this point the laws of physics as currently known can work to produce the universe as it is. However close we can get we may never know for sure how the universe began.

 

There may indeed be a few ideas going around such as parallel universes and/or holographic loop, but these don’t seem testable. This makes it unsatisfactory. I can’t possibly see how the universe could be physically infinite. Closed, certainly. In other words if we keep racing for the exit then we can’t get out, even after an infinite time. This is because ultimately space curves in on itself according to principles of general relativity.

 

To view the entire discussion thread, or better still to have YOUR say, go to: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2237090-the-big-bang-theory—debunked

 

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Membership of our fledgling ‘Underground Knowledge’ discussion group on Goodreads.com has topped 640, making it one of the fastest growing groups on the popular literary site.

Goodreads: Book reviews, recommendations, and discussion

The ‘Underground Knowledge’ group is aimed at those with an interest in the world we live in and a desire to learn or to uncover “underground knowledge” on important issues of our times. Everyone’s welcome to join! All you need is an enquiring mind. Our members include scientists, teachers, historians, authors, military and intelligence agency personnel, bankers, housewives, whistleblowers, students, former police officers and many more.

Visit the group at: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group

 

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Our latest ‘Underground Knowledge’ group poll on the popular literary site Goodreads.com has taken an interesting turn with one of our Muslim members adding to the discussion.

Goodreads: Book reviews, recommendations, and discussion

The poll simply asks: Do you believe in God? Results remain largely unchanged since our last poll update with 71% of poll respondents saying Yes (I believe in God); 16% saying No (I am an atheist); and 13% saying Undecided (I am an agnostic).

Our Muslim member, whom we shall call “Aabid” for the sake of this post, comments as follows:

 I am a believer, I believr in God, Allah, and I would like to point out that Muhammad Peace be upon him, is the a prophet and messenger of God, he’s a person just like all human beings, and in Islam, he’s Not considered a God, God is the Great Creator of the universe, the ultimate power and mighty of all, so please if you’re not a believer don’t be offensive to other religions, Islam Christianity Judasim Pagan or all, please dig things up before you say anything, just like I respect all of your opinions.  

Further random comments follow from other poll respondents (names withheld):

Aabid, finally! It’s nice to have a Muslim member commenting as there have been a lot of ill-informed comments about Islam in various posts (just as there are a lot of ill-informed comments in the media about your religion) so it’s great that you have joined the group. I look forward to reading more of your comments.

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I actually find it incredible that the media has managed to blur people’s opinions, and logic, of Islam and Islamic State etc. We’re on dangerous ground when it comes to confusing someone’s religion with others’ terrorist political religious views. (Especially when Islam and Christianity, along with Judaism of course, are from the same root)…And, oh…. how many examples there have been throughout history, especially with Christianity…

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Stop tarring all with the same brush. Think it through. It’s pretty damn easy to see that terrorism and Islam are two completely different things. And yet, I still feel the need to point it out because people are being brainwashed by the media. Look at who funds both sides of this new world war. That’s who the enemy is. Look at your own governments and ask: “Was it something we did?” You’ll soon find out, hell yes, it was. They’re fighting the West for a reason. You wanna stop the increasing war? Start by changing your own country’s philosophy and start asking: “What can we do to HELP this situation?”

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There are also elements of Islam I disagree with. But I just feel Muslims are being misrepresented in Western media. And moderate Muslims (the vast majority) are paying the price for extreme zealots (small minority).

 

Aabid summarizes the sentiments of most poll respondents to date with the following comment:

…Loving the spirit in this poll by the way.

 

To view the comments of all poll respondents, or better still to have YOUR say, go to: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group?type=group

Poll ends January 26.

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Our ‘Underground Knowledge’ discussion group is aimed at those with an interest in the world we live in and a desire to learn or to uncover “underground knowledge” on important issues of our times.

Everyone’s welcome to join! All you need is an enquiring mind. Our members include scientists, teachers, historians, authors, intelligence agency personnel, bankers, housewives, whistleblowers, students and many more.

Visit the group at: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group

 

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In the latest poll in our ‘Underground Knowledge’ group on the popular literary site Goodreads.com we ask members: Do you believe in God? Given the number of declared atheists in the group, the interim results are surprising.

To date, 72% of poll respondents say Yes (I believe in God); 16% say No (I am an atheist); and 12% say Undecided (I am an agnostic).

It should be pointed out, the question (Do you believe in God) asked in the poll is qualified by the following: “This word doesn’t just include the Christian deity or other religious versions but any concept of God such as non-religious ‘spiritual’, New Age definitions or quantum physics/scientific theories of God).”

Comments received by poll respondents make for interesting reading. Here’s a random sample. (Names withheld)…

Yep….believe in God. BUT…..I’d sure as hell, (oops, sorry God) believe even more if I’d hit the damn lottery after praying sooooo hard. Just sayin.’ 

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Yes, I believe in the Lord God Creator, Maker of Heaven and Earth, unlike the author of the previous post, who prefers to sell his soul to Lucifer, the Fallen Angel. Many people do not believe in intelligent design, but several of my articles point not only to intelligent design and cosmology but a timetable to world events.

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Yes, I am a believer, but I don’t believe on that simple description of the Great Engineer, like it is depicted in the Big Books. 

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Best description would be that I believe in a Mathematical Entity, void of any mental abilities or identity. Completely non Anthropomorphic.

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If you are to consider a fruit bearing tree, you would have a good idea of how I perceive life, and the universe. Interesting, that a single bud of an early spring, may lead to a great tree, hundreds of years old, which produces many fruits, is it not? All is fractal, Brahman is everything.

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My God’s name is NOT Muhammad. My God spreads love and allows me to live my life to it’s fullest. 

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But what about the Islamic members of this group, Xxxxxx? Do you love them too? 🙂 

 

To view the comments of all poll respondents, or better still to have YOUR say, go to: https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group?type=group

Poll ends January 26.

 

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Our ‘Underground Knowledge’ discussion group on Goodreads.com continues to go from strength to strength with membership now topping 490, making this one of the fastest growing groups on Goodreads.

Goodreads: Book reviews, recommendations, and discussion

The group is aimed at those with an interest in the world we live in and a desire to learn or to uncover “underground knowledge” on important issues of our times.

Everyone’s welcome to join! All you need is an enquiring mind. Our members include scientists, teachers, historians, authors, intelligence agency personnel, bankers, housewives, whistleblowers, students, three or four rednecks (probably three) and one or two busy-bodies (two actually).

Visit the group at: https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/142309-underground-knowledge—a-discussion-group

 

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